People waiting for subway at Rodingsmarkt in Hamburg
You get out of the subway, walk up the stairs towards the exit and suddenly there they are: several ticket inspectors who close off everything and take a close look at every passenger. Fare evaders don’t stand a chance here.
"Departure control" is the name given to these concentrated actions, which are very popular with the transport companies in the HVV in the hunt for fare evaders.
There have been a total of 219 such major inspections on the subway and S-Bahn in Hamburg in the first half of 2018, as the Hamburg Senate has now announced in response to a question from CDU transport politician Dennis Thering (printed matter 21/14507).
128 departure checks alone on Hamburg’s S-Bahn (suburban train)
91 exit checks were made on the subway and 128 on the S-Bahn on Hamburg territory.
What is striking here is that the large-scale checks did not take place evenly at all stations, but that there are apparently control focal points.
Veddel is the most controlled S-Bahn station in Hamburg
The most departure checks on the S-Bahn in Hamburg were at the Veddel stop. Inspectors were at the exits there 16 times in the first half of 2018 alone.
In second place among the most-checked S-Bahn stations in Hamburg is Reeperbahn station. Between the beginning of the year and the end of June, there were 13 departure checks here, and ten at the Wilhelmsburg stop. This was followed by..
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- Read more about: HVV fares, fare evaders
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26 Responses to "This is where most fare evasion checks take place in the HVV"
The 20 million euros have been thrown around by the HVV for several years now. With the passenger numbers and also revenues in the HVV rising significantly in recent years, this should already be significantly more than the 20 million euros that have been colocated, just assuming that fare evasion rates remain constant. It would also be interesting to see how the fare evasion rates develop against the background that hardly any bus driver pays attention to the ticket when boarding the bus at the front, or that many customers quickly buy a ticket via smartphone when the ticket inspector comes into view.
"That many customers also quickly buy a ticket via smartphone when the ticket inspector comes into view"
The exact time of purchase is noted on the ticket. If the controller would look more closely at the "receipt" he could notice the "fraud".
Most of the checks therefore take place in socially weaker areas, where the 60 euros are likely to hurt much more than in the richer parts of town. This is social profiling at its best. I am shocked by the HVV, the Hochbahn and the DB! Or why was not controlled at all at the fine Eppendorfer tree or at the haltterstrasse, while between main station and Harburg on the average apparently each week somewhere whole stations are closed down?
"So most of the controls take place in socially weaker areas".
It may look like this at first. When riding the bus, I observe that in the s.g. "better neighborhoods" used much more season tickets than in "socially weaker neighborhoods".
Possibly socially weaker persons also try (or have to try) to "save" every possible cent. If checked infrequently, these individuals could make a cost-risk assessment.
Likewise, the transport association certainly also makes a cost-nitzen assessment: At which stations and on which lines is the deployment of a large group of inspectors "worthwhile"?.
I use mainly trains in the northwest. According to the map, there were hardly any exit controls there. Last year I was repeatedly controlled "IN" trains and buses there. As a rule, the control groups of the S-Bahn were so large that several cars were controlled at once. (getting off when the control became visible in the neighboring car was so not possible). Most of the inspectors were also NOT wearing uniforms, so they were not recognizable before boarding and only revealed themselves by their ID cards. (P.S. After a while, you "know" the ticket inspectors even if they are not in uniform.)
Jo, was also my impression when reading the article. And it is logical that Hammerbrook is controlled so much, because the further education industry is located there with its job center financed offers.
I commute regularly between St. Pauli and Farmsen, and in fact I was only checked around St. Pauli, or if I use the eastern line of the U3 instead of the western one for commuting. So far, I thought it was just a coincidence that it only happened there, but when I look at the "heatmap" now, it seems to be the case with the frequency of checks I perceive around St. Pauli thereby around no coincidence, but method to act.
In principle I find controls OK. However, I find the exit controls very annoying in many cases.
Z.B. "Sternschanze": There, the control always takes place between subway and suburban train. The number of employees is regularly much too low, so that there are backlogs, with the result that the connecting train can no longer be reached. Likewise "Wandskek Markt" the bus connection is gone.
I find the controls "in" the vehicles much more acceptable.
"Likewise "Wandskek Markt" the bus connection is gone."
I also noticed the thick point immediately.
You can show it to the Wandsbekers again, especially when the U1 from the city center is delayed and you have to run to the 9, because such a "departure control" is particularly good. The then has more impact than a missed S1 from the S21 at the main station. Gl. 1.
I can only agree with the comments. There are often exit controls in the morning at Hauptbahnhof Sud when leaving the U1. With the consequence that S-Bahn or train are missed at the main station. The ticket inspectors should actually check in the vehicles, but maybe you don’t feel comfortable going into a crowded train. This will be even more crowded for sure with the new stop Oldenfelde. And by the way, the bus drivers of line 277 from Berne and line 27 in the direction of Billstedt (when boarding especially in Farmsen and at Buddenbrookweg) and Poppenbuttel should look a bit more closely at the tickets and especially not open the doors at the back for boarding without checking the new boarders. Happened last yesterday evening in Farmsen at the stop of the line 27 direction Poppenbuttel around shortly after 20.00. Why is it written on the buses that passengers board at the front, when the bus drivers let them board at the back anyway?? I have never seen inspectors on line 27 or 277…… And ride daily on weekdays and also on weekends….
Quote: "Why is it written on the buses that passengers board at the front, when the bus drivers let them board at the back anyway?? "
Some time ago, I had a conversation with a bus driver at a terminus about this very point. He told me the following, mutatis mutandis:
1. If the passengers show the ticket only briefly when boarding, he cannot read the exact type so quickly. 2. The entrance is two-part and he has, if he just sells a ticket, no view for the further passenger. To ensure that all passengers board in line, the second half of the door would have to remain closed. As a result, each passenger change would take much longer, especially at stops with a lot of transfer passengers. He could then forget the timetable. In order to be able to keep to the timetable even when checking closely, an additional 1-2 minutes would have to be planned at EACH stop."
For me this means: If there is always a lot of control, the public transport will become even less attractive. Therefore, I think it is reasonable for drivers to allow boarding and alighting at ALL doors at their discretion.
I always thought that the bus driver mainly checks whether a ticket is present and the inspection service then checks the validity. It is often not at all possible to control all tickets.
Likewise main station south (U1): With the departure control the escalators are switched off. "For security reasons" the Hochbahn told me on the phone. Aren’t escalators and elevators broken down often enough?? Must one in this way the paying passengers once again additionally schickanieren?
I think it’s great when there are so many controls, keep it up
The mentioned not yet departure control in Altona was just yesterday evening.
I find the departure controls at Hauptbahnhof Sud when leaving the U1 very inconvenient, and missing the S-Bahn or train happens regularly. The inspectors should come to the U1, but that is probably too crowded for you. By the way, especially the bus drivers of line 277 from Berne towards Barmbek and line 27 from Farmsen and Buddenbrookweg towards Poppenbuttel resp. Billstedt do not open the doors at the back to board, and then do not check the tickets. Happened last night at shortly after 20.00 in Farmsen on line 27 direction Poppenbuttel.
Control must be, quite clearly!
But the biggest slap is
Driving ban for our older
People here in the city
Hamburg, between 16:00
and 18:00. Is not time-
according to more.
Probably it escaped your attention that the HVV-Seniorenkarte only has a closing time in the morning (during the week it is only valid from 9am), but can be used without restrictions in the afternoon. I don’t see it as a slap in the face. And there is no driving ban for certain age groups anyway…
To me, this also smells a lot like social profiling. The fact that the stations Hallerstrasse, Eppendorfer Baum and Sierichstrasse are not controlled, while Veddel, Harburg and Wilhelmsburg are controlled all the more, is actually a medium scandal.
Racial profiling – when I hear that again….
The inspectors should be able to detect fare evaders as effectively as possible, and a high frequency at the station is the most important aspect. And all "hot spots" are heavily frequented stations, i.d.R. Transfer points and/or bus hubs.
If experience values are added to this, then Veddel is u.U. Hamburg’s stronghold for fare evaders, and only students with semester tickets get off at Dammtor anyway. Even if this may have a social background, I see at most the symptom here, and no malicious intent.
Yes yes, what you always have to hear in a writing forum… social – racial – main thing Italy.
I think Sigmar Gabriel had a point – even if he shouldn’t have put it that way.
On the subject:
At a station like Eppendorfer Baum, it would be easy to install an automated transit control system.
If Hamburg already has the luxury of this modest& The station’s subway station exits are..
We have shortened this post because of personal insults against another user and the use of swear words. In the future, such comments will not be released at all. We ask on this side for an objective discussion at the topic.
"This is social profiling at its best." Or "For me, this also smells very much like social profiling."Racial Profiling" That always the social or racist club must be used immediately. I can’t hear it anymore. Quite simply, if you want to take the train, you have to pay. But there are social and who-knows-for special tariffs. And as a user correctly wrote, there are also empirical values. Basically, everyone who pays for his rides should be happy if they are effectively controlled. He pays for all not caught fare dodgers with
Oh, and the "anti-poor club" is permitted?
It is exactly this typical Hamburg (a)social segregation that works here again. (It’s no wonder with a governing party that is more conservative than the CSU. In the city of the most millionaires.)
By the way, I remember a post about a "HVV control marathon" here in the forum, in which it was stated that the proportionally most fare evaders were in "better-off areas", like z.B. at the S-Bahn station Blankenese, were discovered. This was met with astonishment at the time, because people had probably approached it with the prejudice that this would not happen in Steilshoop, Jenfeld, Williburg et. al. would have to be.
What would you call the fare evasion of the well-to-do?? Also "experience values" with people for whom there are "nevertheless social and who-knows-for special tariffs" or nevertheless rather "clever, sporty savings model" (similarly that of our rich "tax optimizers")?
And do you really believe that if everyone would be honest and no one would drive black anymore, the HVV would give even one cent back to the people?? The next annual fare increase in the most expensive public transport system in Germany is as certain as the Amen in the church!
Yes, it is social profiling at its best!
Yes, and I agree with the last sentence of Lokstedter in the current Elbbrucken contribution explicitly. And that without any irony.
The fact that the controls happen more often in socially (…actually means financially) weaker places is certainly not wrong when measured against their own goals, i.e. to catch as many fare dodgers as possible.
Rather, it should be recognized that this is a completely different problem, not that people in this area are more immoral because they don’t buy tickets, but that for them -who most likely rely on public transport the most- the financial burden is not sustainable. So how about seeing this map and thinking "shit, people in poorer neighborhoods ride black, something has to be done so they can afford mobility"
And to this: "There are social fares and who-knows-for special fares" … who-knows? None reasonable it seems.
I am since meanwhile 14 years in the possession of a season ticket. So I am a "good" payer. That here but people are happy that there are so many controls I can not understand. In particular, the control mania in the buses about a year ago where after decades of general boarding only the "front boarding" should be allowed testifies to the absolute reality alienation of the decisive people in the HVV. But they also have their big cars and don’t drive HVV at all.
With what hypocritical arguments there was justified such a restrictive handle. "It goes much faster blah blah blah". No it is not! The buses had even more delays than anyway. All have squeezed through the narrow aisle and the bus driver has not been able to see exactly what there people show anyway. I could also have shown my receipt from the supermarket.
I buy a ticket/season ticket because I want to use a reasonable public transport system legally in which I can travel quickly and reasonably ecologically through HH. If there are people who can’t afford the ticket, or forgot to buy one, it doesn’t matter. Let them ride.
Fortunately, most bus drivers have now given up this nonsense and let everywhere to board so that they can do what they are already qua job title, can. Riding the bus! Do not select people.
A departure k9ntrolle I had nich nue but I noticed that just at the beginning of the semester at the beginning of October equal to 3x on the day was controlled. Ansinsten rather rarely.
I have a question about the exit controls: If I get off two stations earlier, do I have to get off the bus and take myself to the exit to get back on the train 10 minutes later?? Do I count as a fare dodger?